Kids in Public: do you let them out of sight?
It can be hard to know sometimes how to handle a situation, but it sure does help to hear perspectives from other mamas and papas. So, an urbanMama emailed recently to hear about how you handle letting the children out of your sight in public:
The other day I left my 3 and a half-year-old alone in the children's section of the library while I took her baby brother into the restroom for a diaper change. I told her to stay where she was and I would be back in a couple minutes. It didn't cross my mind at the time that there was any risk - of her being approached by a malevolent stranger and abducted from a quiet library - but as my husband later pointed out, there've been been scarier stories in the news. While I don't imagine her being the sort of child who would go off with someone she didn't know, even the thought is enough to scare the bejeezes out of any mama.
How vigilant or not are you about letting your little ones momentarily out of your sight in public places? At what age do you have the 'stranger safety' talk and what do you say? How do you find a balance between being wary of strangers but not making your child too anxious and distrustful?
How vigilant or not are you about letting your little ones momentarily out of your sight in public places? At what age do you have the 'stranger safety' talk and what do you say? How do you find a balance between being wary of strangers but not making your child too anxious and distrustful?
I've only recently let my 7 year old be alone, maybe in the last year or so (ie different area of the Children's Museum while I'm with my 22 mo. old a few sections over, or in the library while I'm changing a diaper). I think 3 is too young to understand how to deal with strangers or to remember not to wander just a little. We saved the stranger talk until recently, but always said he needed to be with a family member or an adult I specifically said was ok.
Posted by: sw mama | June 01, 2009 at 01:01 PM
I'm not an overly paranoid mom, but that story makes me cringe. Three is way too young to be left alone out of your sight. In an instant someone could pick your kid up and walk right out the door with them. At that age, few people would bat an eye if the child is screaming because it would appear to be just another child having a tantrum.
You can only put so much responsibility on kids of a certain age. At that age it's not about making your child distrustful, but teaching them about not going with people they don't know and then not putting them in a situation where that could happen. If you are a predator who's looking for children, libaries and parks are prime areas.
Posted by: pdx mama | June 01, 2009 at 01:11 PM
Though it is a real possibility, I'm less worried about an abduction than about the child wandering off. You never know what might happen and the child wants to find you, or sees something outside that s/he wants to look at, or just gets some other idea in their head that may take them out of the building. The child with Down's Syndrome that wandered out of the Rose Quarter (I think that was the building) and ended up being killed on I-5 left a horrified imprint on my soul.
It's tempting to take little efficiencies, but I've learned to just slow down.
Posted by: keenbeen | June 01, 2009 at 01:22 PM
I also think 3 is too young. I haven't let mine out of my sight in public yet - I have a 4 year old and 2 year old twins. I imagine it will be sometime around age 8-10 depending on their maturity.
We've talked in general terms about strangers to my 4 year old, and about how she is always to be with mama, dada, or a friend.
Posted by: mummytothree | June 01, 2009 at 01:45 PM
I think you are the best judge of when it's ok to leave your child alone in the library for 5 minutes. My 3 year old twins would definitely meander off to play with the computers or re-arrange the hold-slips but every child is different. I also have not had the "stranger danger" talk with my girls- children are more likely to be abducted or abused by someone you know, even a family member, than a stranger. Not a comforting thought, but true nonetheless.
Posted by: Rayna | June 01, 2009 at 01:58 PM
3 is way too young to be left alone in a public place. Wandering away could mean wandering outside into the street, getting confused amidst the bookshelves and feeling scared, or being abducted. 3 year old children are not developmentally able to be alone in a situation like that. Children are vulnerable.
Posted by: Mamipdx | June 01, 2009 at 02:08 PM
I also think 3 is a bit too young.
..But I also think that your kid can be pretty self-sufficient by 7.
This is a good blog on the topic:
http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/
Posted by: Paen | June 01, 2009 at 02:17 PM
Lenore Skenazy has a blog about just this... http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/ It is really a great thing to think about, in my opinion. Kids are capable of much more than we give them credit for, and as much as the possibilities of abduction and accidents are real, I don't want my kids growing up being afraid of their world. While some 3 year olds may be to mentally immature to understand clear boundaries, some may be mature enough.
My 3.5 year old is easily able to understand her boundaries when we are playing at a park, and I know she is clear on our rules. She even is allowed to play in our front yard (with the front door open) by herself for up to 5 minutes. Checking in on her every few minutes is a comfortable situation for us both. She comes to me if she needs something, I go to her if I notice she needs me. However, I think things will be different when my 15 month old son is that age. He does not understand boundaries as well as my daughter did at that age and may need different rules. A parent knows best the limits of their own child's capabilities and understanding and should have the ability to feel secure in their decisions based on that knowledge.
Posted by: lizzibee | June 01, 2009 at 02:25 PM
Not to be the paranoid mama, but I recently heard a statistic that Portland has quite a high rate comparatively of human trafficking, and more than half of the victims are U.S. citizens. I would think about leaving an older child (8 or so) in a similar situation at a local library, but not a 3 year old.
Posted by: anon | June 01, 2009 at 02:26 PM
Three is way too little. Unless I had given another mom I knew "the nod".. there's no way I would have done that.
Mine were probably 8 and 6 before I let them wait nearby, but not in, the bathroom.
Posted by: philomom | June 01, 2009 at 03:48 PM
My son is 3.5 years and I would not leave him alone in a library. It is not so much the stranger issue that scares me personally, but the possibility of him wandering -- perhaps even outside and then the dangers of traffic and such. Your child may just be very different, but I don't have confidence that my son at this age can reliably be trusted to "stay in that one place and not go anywhere" or whatever the instruction would be.
Posted by: Joan | June 01, 2009 at 04:04 PM
I have left my 3 and a half year old listening to a book on the computer for one minute while I run to the bathroom. I usually let her listen to the book and I look at other books for her on the shelves and check in with her (she is always in my sights) and there is really no way a casual observer could tell that she was not being watched. I usually take about one minute and run back but feel a bit panicky about leaving her. I am familiar with the library staff and they would know if someone was carrying her off against her will (very small library) but I can't count on that. I think taking another kid to the bathroom might take a bit longer than my comfort level would allow, seeing as my daughter always took FOREVER to go potty at that age and I would be freaking out about my other kid.
Posted by: Debby | June 01, 2009 at 04:42 PM
I've been struggling with some of this lately. My eldest just turned 5, which is that magical age where I start getting the dirty looks about bringing him in the women's bathroom. Do I let him go in the men's alone? At the park, they like to play further and further away from me. I think I'm falling on the side of being within eye-sight, which is my comfort zone right now. Specifically at the library, I'm with Debby in letting them listen/watch the computer while I look at books, but I can always see them. And I'm much more vigilant with my 3 year old than my 5 year old. At three years I still prefer to be within an arm's reach, at least within a brief sprint and arm's reach.
Posted by: mom22 | June 01, 2009 at 05:04 PM
Not looking forward to the bathroom issue. Less worried about stranger abduction (although of course it's scary to me; & I don't mean to be dismissive to anyone here who has been affected by that horror), more worried that my son will deliberately wander off to look at something interesting.
When he was almost-4, I started letting him stay briefly somewhere in public by himself (e.g., looking at toys at New Seasons while I unload the cart at the checkout--I can see him; in a resale shop's child's play area when I'm betw him & the (only) door). I always kneel down and tell him: please stay here until you see my face. Yes, I'm taking risks. I'm also letting him (and me!) learn about independence in small does. We talk ALL THE TIME about new people we meet, whether we feel comfy w/them, remind him to ask a mommy/grandmother for help, point out a specific salesperson to go to, etc. Now, at 4 1/4, he plays outside in front of our house alone, and, if he tells us 1st, walks to his friends' houses 1-2 lots away.
Only once have I felt I truly erred: he left his "post" at a small nursery we frequent to find me because he so badly had to go to the bathroom. I couldn't find him, he couldn't find me, I was panicked/guilty/terrified, he was calm/bemused. We met up (and made it to the bathroom in time). I talk to him about why I was so freaked out, and we worked out a diff. way of handling things.
W/my next child, I'll do the same: observe her behavior & temperament, let her try being alone in tiny doses, observe how those goes, etc.
Posted by: StrikingABalance | June 01, 2009 at 05:54 PM
In reference to the idea of not wanting your child to grow up with fear of their world - certainly most parents don't want that. Letting them go into situations in which there is no way they could handle potential dangers is not helping them develop less fear, it's setting them up for victimization (i.e. Even if your child can come to you for help for certain things, if an adult overpowers them or lures them away, they aren't going to be able to manage that at 3 years old. These are the things that happen in a blink of an eye.). I think you can help your child feel confident and carefree within your supervision and build in other ways in life they can develop independence that don't include leaving them out of eyesight for minutes at a time. I think the time to think about lessening supervision is when children are older and have experienced more of life, have expanded decision making capabilities, and have internalized safety lessons.
Posted by: E | June 01, 2009 at 08:19 PM
Predators are very skilled and opportunistic. They are expert at getting children to leave with them quickly and quietly. You don't need to freak your 3.5 year old out with a stranger danger talk, instead let them talk to whomever, whenever, with the caveat that you are there with them. You are the protector. It is a mean world out there. Wait until they are more developmentally ready to handle the responsibility of being vigilant for their own safety.
Posted by: MommaD | June 01, 2009 at 08:49 PM
When I was about 8 I 'ran away' after church to walk home by myself. About a mile I think, along a busy road. I was mad at my parents for some reason, I think they were going somewhere else after church & I wanted to go home. I thought they would come after me, but they didn't. So I was walking home alone. When I was about half way home some people pulled over & offered me a ride. I said "no, I don't know you." They said they were friends of my parents. I knew not to get in a car with strangers, I didn't recognize them (although they looked OK), I didn't feel like I should get in the car.. but for some reason I did. Luckily they were friends of my parents and took me home. This still scares the shit out of me. That could have been the end of me.
Needless to say I'm a more paranoid mama. Mine is only 18 months, so I'm not to this stage yet. It's going to be challenging. I did enjoy a lot of freedom playing out in the yard alone (in a city) & can't imagine letting him do that (although my current neighborhood is better then where I lived as a kid). At the same time I want him to be able to enjoy being outside. I can almost see the temptation of the suburbs now.
Posted by: cg | June 01, 2009 at 10:13 PM
I think three is way too young. It definitely would have been for either of my boys. mom22, I think you should ignore any dirty looks you might get when you bring your five year old into the ladies' room. Any mom of a boy would definitely be understanding, and your child goes into a stall, so privacy should not be an issue. Five is too young for a little boy to go to a men's room alone. I have just recently been allowing my nine year old to use the men's room alone, he really did suddenly hit an awkward age where it mattered to him. I stand RIGHT outside the bathroom door when he goes in, however! It's not that I worry so much, it's more that I keep my defenses up when the safety of my kids could be compromised.
Posted by: AnEmily | June 01, 2009 at 10:15 PM
This is timely, as I just spend the better part of a half hour reading about "free range" parenting. The idea that the risks to our kids are mostly perceived and not real. The crimes against children are at the same rate as in the 1970s. Our children need freedom to be alone. Three might be a little young, but if we prepare our kids (stay where you are, know your phone number, if someone asks say your mom will be right back). It's quite an interesting concept. When I was younger than 5, I was allowed to ride my bike around the neighborhood with friends, walk to the nearest corner market, walk to me friend's houses with no problem. I was probably 3 or 4 when I started walking across the street and up the street to the neighbors. I don't think it's a big deal that you left your daughter at the library for 3 minutes while you changed a diaper.
Posted by: Meg | June 01, 2009 at 10:54 PM
Would never leave a young child unattended in a public place. It has less to do with the child than those around him/her.
This story out of New Bedford, Mass., is one horrifying, life-changing reason why.
http://wbztv.com/local/boy.raped.in.2.646128.html
Posted by: PortlandDad | June 02, 2009 at 04:38 AM
Nope, no way-no how. My younger kids always go into the bathroom with me, (not my 10 year old boy-but he stands outside and I talk to him sporadically while I am inside) why wasn't that an option? The thing on human trafficking here in Portland is frightening-is this true? Where can I find more information about it? I don't let paranoia rule my life but basic safety is important, and especially true in a big city like ours.
Posted by: sanQ | June 02, 2009 at 05:13 AM
I was going to post the link PortlandDad posted above.
The story horrified me, a lifelong library lover, when it first hit the news. I would never leave my young child alone as a result.
My son, now 2, is particularly friendly and says hi to strangers at the grocery store, and to other kids, all the time. He seems surprised that people don't always say hi back to him. I'm already wondering how and when to explain to him that everyone isn't always as friendly as he is, and that some strangers can be dangerous.
Posted by: Lyrehca | June 02, 2009 at 07:40 AM
I too think 3 may be a little young, but I do give my almost 5 year old quite a lot of freedom. While nobody wants anything bad to happen to there children, you have to decide what an acceptable level of risk is for you. Don't let other people scare or panic you. Fear is contagious.
To those who would NEVER leave a child alone in public, do you ever let them go by themselves to friends houses?, leave them with your brother-in-law or husbands uncle? Or maybe even your husband? These are the people who are much more likely to hurt your child. And to sanQ kids in small towns are just as likely to be abused as children in mid-sized cities like Portland.
The world is only as big and scary as you make it.
Posted by: pdxmomto2 | June 02, 2009 at 08:34 AM
I also don't want my kids to be scared of the world; but I think if you are not aware of the dangers then you are putting your children in danger. I too have a three year old and do not let her out of my site. She is too precious to lose.
We live in a HUGE city and I think that it is very dangerous to let a child/toddler roam around alone. We are their parents and we are supposed to protect them as long as they are vulnerable and can't defend themselves. Your children don't have to know all of your fears!!! Speak for yourselves, but I will be keeping an eye on my kids!!
Posted by: Bree | June 02, 2009 at 08:56 AM
Interesting topic. I strive to find some healthy balance while keeping my kids safe. With an almost-5 yo and a toddler, there is no way that I can keep the older one in sight *every second* while we're at a park, say. She needs to run around and play, and I have to constantly chase after the little one, etc. I talk regularly with my daughter about how she must stay within a certain area of the park (and she's very good about following the rules), that she must never leave with any other person but me, what she could say if someone offers her something to eat or asks her to come with them, who she could ask for help. I really try to downplay the "danger" aspect, instead just say this is the rule. She is a very friendly, outgoing girl and I don't want to stifle that or encourage fears.
With my son, I can see being a little more vigilant because he doesn't seem to respect boundaries quite as well, plus I won't have another little one to watch over, but we'll see as he gets older.
Ultimately of course it is my responsability to keep them safe, I shouldn't rely on my child to keep herself safe. But at some point she needs some independance; better I think to start in baby steps like playing by herself on the monkey bars while I'm over at the swings, or at the play area of a cafe/restaurant while I'm at a table... And realistically, with a busy toddler to keep track of, if I couldn't let her out of my sight at all, then we would never leave the house.
Posted by: Emily | June 02, 2009 at 08:57 AM
Regarding the free range kids, it would be interesting to know the reason why those statistics have dropped. Perhaps because parents have become more aware of how unsafe it is to let their kids wander? Because we're all more aware of how frequently children disappear? I know very few parents nowadays who would allow their young kids out of their sights, whereas my parents let us ride all over the neighborhoods alone.
I agree with "E", that it's not about making your kids afraid or paranoid and with Bree that your kids don't need to know every reason that you don't let them out in public by themselves. But it seems like it's enough for each of us to know as parents that in one instant life could change forever.
IMHO it appears that some people see not allowing your child to be alone in public or play outside by themselves as a form of helicopter parenting, but it's so different. This isn't about not allowing your child to be independent or learn life lessons, it's about providing for their basic needs of safety.
We live in an older well-established neighborhood in Portland and if you look at a database of crime, you can find a sex-offender within a mile every direction. You cannot control who drives down your street and sees your child regularly playing alone in your front yard. We don't live in fear that our child would be taken, but we also try our best not to create any opportunities.
I completely respect what everyone here is trying to do with their kids and believe that we're all lucky to have parents around who are trying to raise independent, strong, safe kids.
Posted by: pdx mama | June 02, 2009 at 09:17 AM
Very much agree with pdx mama. I did look at Dru Sjodin database and searched our zip code.
http://www.nsopw.gov/Core/OffenderSearchCriteria.aspx?Advanced=1
Wow. 12 violent offenders in my area and their crimes/methods are terrifying. I work hard not to be a panicked, hover-mother, but I also agree that there are dangers out there to be aware of.
Posted by: anon | June 02, 2009 at 09:49 AM
The response from "E" is great.
My husband is a deputy sheriff, so we're very aware of the creepy people in society doing terrible things to children.
Three is way too young to be left alone. Even an older child who can understand the importance of staying-put, and not talking to, or leaving with a stranger, can be pursuaded by a deceitful adult.
There is certainly a difference between teaching a child to be cautious in the world, and making them socially-debilitaed by paranoia.
I think having a healthy amount of wariness towards stangers is good for kids, and adults.
And as parents, we definteley shouldn't let our hectic lives cloud our judgment when it comes to our children's safety.
Posted by: Kim | June 02, 2009 at 09:53 AM
Just for information's sake, here is some info on Oregon laws regarding this issue.
FYI. See also http://oregonlegalresearch.blogspot.com/search/label/child%20neglect
“What is the legal age for leaving a child home alone?
When people ask this question they are typically wanting to be told a specific age when a child can be left alone. To the surprise of many, there is no specific age provided for by law. There is, however, one law which provides a minimum guideline. Oregon's child neglect laws indicate a child should be at least ten years of age or older. Child neglect in the second degree is defined by a person having custody of a child under 10 years of age and, with criminal negligence, leaves the child unattended at any place for such period of time as may be likely to endanger the health or welfare of such child.
Some children who are ten years of age or older also should not be left alone. In these circumstances, the good judgment of the parent or guardian is most important. Generally speaking there are three primary variables which need to be considered. First, the maturity of the child, second, the environment provided for the child and third, how long the child will be unattended. The best advice is to error on the side of caution, safety and the best interest of the child. As a guideline it is also advisable to be extra cautious with children under 10 years of age. If in doubt it would be wise to call the State Department of Human Services - Clackamas Branch: 971-673-7200 or 1-800-628-7876.
In regard to maturity, a child may be 13 years old and yet immature and unskilled at providing for him or herself when alone or during an emergency. Under these circumstances, if notified, the police or State child welfare agency may be concerned. However, a child may be 11 years of age, very mature, quite skilled at meeting his needs and well prepared to respond to an unanticipated event. In this case it may be appropriate to leave the child unattended for a short period of time.
The child's environment is also of great concern. Central issues of concern include the provision of food, heat, emergency planning, and access to a responsible adult if needed. Ideally, if a child must be left unattended for a short period of time, a neighbor should be available to periodically check in on the child. Of course, regular phone calls from a parent demonstrates appropriate concern too.
It is not advisable to leave any child unattended for an extended period of time.”
Posted by: Trina | June 02, 2009 at 09:57 AM
FYI - the language in the comment is not mine. It is from the blog I posted a link to.
Posted by: Trina | June 02, 2009 at 09:58 AM
This is a topic I think about frequently. I am a mother of an 8 year old boy who has Autism and a 5 year old boy. I suppose I would say that I am an overprotective mother. I still don't allow my 8 year old to go into a public bathroom by himself. And yes I have gotten some strange looks when I have to take him in the Women's room with me but I don't really care. He is a very intelligent boy but I have just heard too many horrific stories. I suppose one of the reasons I am so overprotective is because I grew up having to do so much on my own growing up. Not only was I responsible for myself but my little sister as well. In some ways looking back I can definitely see the positive aspects of having that responsibility, but I can also remember quite clearly how afraid I was of walking by myself to Kindergarten in a very urban neighborhood in Washington. My sister and I had to fend for ourselves in many ways and honestly it is a miracle nothing bad ever happened to us. I had an antenna of sorts for scoping out situations that might have been dangerous. There is I feel a balance between allowing our children to gain confidence and also ensuring safety and a sense of security for our children.
Posted by: Heidi | June 02, 2009 at 10:56 AM
My kid did the home alone class that the American Red Cross provides. It really depends on the situation. People leave babies sleeping in the car while they run in to get something.
I don't think the world is less safe, but we are more plugged in. When I was a kid I wouldn't know about a kid being raped/murdered across the state much less across the country and world.
I wouldn't do 3 but I only had one kid to care for, so. .. I read part of the Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker and I do believe it's imporitant to have kids interact with adults in your presence so they're not freaked out by themselves.
I remember going to a training where everyone was worked up about the sex offender listing. The Sherriff's doing the traing said that less than 10% of the 300+ child sexual abuse cases that they had worked with had to do with sex offenders. That we were better off keeping our kids pics off our desks at work. Sex offenders live near me and come into my office not infrequently. I don't fear them anymore ofr less than the soccer coach or friend's mom's boyfriend or whatever. It's like people getting upset about "gang violence", I'm upset about anybody taking a shot/stab/pummel at me or mine.
That said it depends on the situation. WHen mine was 7, I would let her go get a soda at the Carnival street festival in SF not go to the bathroom alone in alot of places here. I felt more comfortable in that environment and so did she. Hell, I would follow her to mall bathroom NOW if I could. At 14, she says things like "Get off me, mom" so I must stop. She barely crossed the street alone til middle school. I was riding MUNI buses alone at 6. Hard to tell if one was safer than the other.
Posted by: ProtestMama | June 02, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Just wanted to say that I really agree with PDX mama about free range parenting and crime stats....a friend of mine and I have been having a very intense conversation about free range parenting and we are really, deeply troubled by the notion. It's a parenting approach, just like bottle v. breast, co-sleeping, etc., but unlike approaches like those, if this theory turns out not to work, there is no do-over, no chance to fix your mistake. Your child will be gone. There have to be other ways to instill confidence in your child...
Sex offenders are just one of my fears -- wandering off, going out the door to the traffic outside, getting lost and then getting freaked out -- are others. But, since the writer mentioned the library, Jack McClellan, a known pedophile, has been known to hang out in the downtown library...
Now, maybe I sound shrill or alarmist by all of what I just wrote, but again, I can't just go pick up two more children. It's my job to make sure they are safe...
Posted by: Kristin | June 02, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Like ProtestMama, my daughter is older than most of the children of the commenters here. She's not quite 12, and this has been the first school year that I've really started to let go and let her move about in the world at times essentially unsupervised. I use my mama radar and my gut a whole lot to tell me what places are and are not okay for her to be without me, or without another adult I know and trust. Some places I'll still go into the restroom with her (the mall and Fred's), but she rides to and from school some days on Tri-Met.
And I want to echo ProtestMama's comments on sex offenders. I am no more or no less worried about them than I am the coach or a classmate's dad or big brother.
Posted by: Sheryl | June 02, 2009 at 12:26 PM
I heard somewhere that you can ask yourself if you would leave your purse in a spot by itself and if not, think about why would you leave your young child there. Maybe not the best analogy but it does make you think!
Posted by: MommaD | June 02, 2009 at 12:28 PM
In 2005, the latest statistics I could find, 511 children died in the state of Oregon. Only 14 were homicide victims, 20 suicide victims and 341 died of natural causes. 124 died of accidental causes 13 from drowning and 83 from motor vehicle accidents. (stats from (http://www.childdeathreview.org/2005Data/OR2005.pdf)
My point is, how many of us even think twice about letting our children ride in a car? Your child is six times more likely to die in a car, than to be murdered. Yet no one here is saying the would NEVER let their child in a car. Fear can be irrational and dangerous. Parenting choices should be based on logic and facts, not fear and rumor.
Posted by: pdxmomto2 | June 02, 2009 at 12:42 PM
I guess I'm wondering why not just tell the 3 year old she needs to come to the bathroom with you to change the baby's diaper? Then the whole point is moot, isn't it? It feels to me like there's this big rush to let kids be "independent" and I guess I'm wondering why that is. Independence will naturally unfold with time. Why can't we treasure those years when we can keep kids close and young.
Posted by: kim | June 02, 2009 at 12:58 PM
For the anon at 9:49, this official state website has a bit more information on each offender than the one you were searching:
http://sexoffenders.oregon.gov/SorPublic/Web.dll/main?S=
Posted by: catmom | June 02, 2009 at 01:00 PM
Personally, I wouldn't leave a three year old alone in a public place unless I saw a reliable mom who agreed to keep an eye on him for a minute. I agree that there's much greater chance of your child being accosted by a family member, friend, etc. than "stranger danger" but at three, a child can wander off, get scared. And of course if an opportunist did happen to notice him...
Being married to a cop has also made me more paranoid. I rode my bike around the neighborhood and played outside with my friends without my parents directly there when I was about five. Ideally, I want my son to have the same freedoms so long as we both feel comfortable...And it won't be in our current neighborhood :)
Posted by: Alyssa | June 02, 2009 at 02:18 PM
To pdxmomto2:
The deaths from motor vehicle accident numbers you are citing include kids being hit by cars. My earlier post on this topic specifically relates to traffic. It is my #1 fear with my boy, i.e., his wandering and being hit. The library I visit is located in a fairly high-traffic area -- even the parking lot is jammed with cars vying for spots (Albina library).
Posted by: Joan | June 02, 2009 at 03:16 PM
I would suggest the book, "Protecting the Gift," by Gavin DeBecker. He does a very good job of addressing the dangers that are very real for your children and how you as a parent can help keep them safe. He suggests, for example, that it is far more important to spend time thinking carefully about the babysitter and his/her friends, than to lose sleep worrying about your child being abducted. He is not a fan, nor am I, of teaching stranger-danger. Our children watch us talk to "strangers" every day - I agree with the previous posters who suggest teaching their children to filter which strangers may be better than others to go to for help. Children that won't talk to any strangers are paralyzed when they accidentally do get separated from a parent (I have tried to help one such 4ish year old). That being said, I do think at three children are too young to be responsible for their own safety.
Posted by: KateC | June 02, 2009 at 03:54 PM
I was just at the grocery store (new seasons, totally trustworthy store!) and realized I had left my wallet outside. I parked my cart by the window and pulled my 3 year old out of it, grabbed my 5 year old's hand, and hauled them out with me even though they would have been in eye sight of me and the checker the entire time I ran out to get said wallet. I was half way out the store when I thought of this post. Really, it would have just been simpler to just leave them there, and they would have been fine. But the idea of doing it was so not even on the table. They just came with me, and the effort it took was minimal.
Posted by: tracy | June 02, 2009 at 04:36 PM
I don't see the problem with worrying about both stranger danger and danger from those we know. And a child left alone needing a parent suddenly, or wandering off.
PDX mama put it all very well. I believe raised awareness and vigilance has done the most for keeping the rates of child victims down. Two of my friends, one boy and one girl, told me they were molested when young, by people they knew. Since two people told me, and never officially reported it, it makes me ill to think of how many children must have been molested in the 1970's middle class suburb I grew up in, where parents didn't pay much attention to their kids activities. The parents I know now are much more careful than many of those I knew then, and I believe their kids are more likely to be safe. There was a large effort to create public information campaigns because there was unawareness that was leading to children becoming victims. I can give them credit for working. The guy who started America's Most Wanted revolutionized the way the FBI handled child abduction cases.
I just don't think that we should assume kids will be OK because we think they are mature. We haven't seen them in a scary situation, we don't know if they could handle it. I agree with those who say we can raise confident and aware kids without exposing them to risks.
Posted by: keenbeen | June 02, 2009 at 04:43 PM
This is a hard one for me. My big kids are 8 and 10, and fairly paranoid all on their own, so I am okay leaving them alone at the library, letting them go to the bathroom by themselves, etc. I have even let them go to our local park by themselves (two blocks away). But they started life in a super tough neighborhood in a big city. Our neighborhood is a piece of cake by comparison.
That said, I don't do sleepovers and they know to check with me before taking anything from any grown up, or going into their friends' houses.
Posted by: Cher | June 02, 2009 at 04:52 PM
When I was a 6-year-old, in 1974, I was walking alone from the bus stop and a man in a truck tried to get me into his truck, and he was exposing himself to me.
My mom had actually prepared me (she told me someone might offer me candy) and I knew what this situation was. I ran away.
A friend I know as an adult was actually abducted as a child, and somehow talked her way out of the situation. That guy is actually still in jail.
Most people are good and nice, but I do believe it is good to be prepared for the fact that there are bad people out there who will do bad things. I will probably err on the side of being too careful.
Posted by: kathyT | June 02, 2009 at 06:17 PM
I guess I'd ask myself what I think my child would do if someone came up to her, smiled, held out their hand, and said, "Your mommy asked me to come and get you! Come with me to see your mommy."
No way -- 3.5 is WAY too young to be left alone anywhere.
Posted by: Amy | June 02, 2009 at 09:34 PM
I was just reading a story from my childhood about a mother who faught off firemen and dove into the flames of her burning home to save her tiny baby. She had been visiting a neighbor down the street, leaving her napping baby alone in the house,when it caught fire. The mother succeeded in saving her babe, disfiguring herself in the process. The mother was depicted as being a selfless hero; whereas today she probably would have been incarcerated for leaving the child in the first place.
I am all for the idea of a 'free range kid', but I also know that a registered child molester lives just five blocks away.
There was something on NPR ages ago about the changes in parenting trends over the past 40 years and the impact it has on our children.
'For most of human history, children played by roaming near or far in packs large and small. Younger children were supervised by older children and engaged in freewheeling imaginative play. They were pirates and princesses, aristocrats and heroes.
But, while all that play might have looked a lot like time spent doing nothing much at all, it actually helped build a critical cognitive skill called executive function. Executive function has a number of elements, such as working memory and cognitive flexibility. But perhaps the most important is self-regulation — the ability for kids to control their emotions and behavior, resist impulses, and exert self-control and discipline. Executive function — and its self-regulation element — is important. Poor executive function is associated with high dropout rates, drug use and crime. In fact, good executive function is a better predictor of success in school than a child's IQ.'
So I guess the debate is whether we choose for our children to be smarter or safer. My children are 2 1/2 and still pending (due in August). I guess I'll have to wait until the time comes to know how I lean.
Posted by: lea | June 03, 2009 at 02:37 AM
I had a childhood like the one Lea described, but don't think it has to be a choice between smart and safe. I think there are ways kids can run "free" without actually being away from us, just so we don't jump in at the first sign of a small conflict or a way of playing that may not seem kosher. You can let them "go" in your own backyard or across the big field in the park -- you can still see them, but you don't have to have it be an overreaching eye....
Posted by: Kristin | June 03, 2009 at 07:42 AM
While taking a child abuse prevention course we read a pamphlet written by pedophiles who were convicted and in prison for their crimes. The pamphlet shared all the things they do to prey on your child! Did you know that one of the places they go is the library? Next time you go to the library just look around. Do you see any men sitting around in the children's section? (Even if they are with kids, you need to be aware.) What is your gut feeling when you look into their eyes? When I went to the Beaverton library a few months ago I saw some old man sitting in the children's section all by himself and he really gave me the creeps. We need to pay attention to our gut feeling and teach our children to do the same. One of the things predators do is try to give children positive attention and they prey on kids with busy parents. Leaving children alone in public places (like the library, OMSI, Children's Museum) is very dangerous. When I was a little girl I had been approached many times by perverted old men. They knew my mom and dad weren't watching. Thank God I paid attention to my gut feelings and ran away. Also, when we put our kids in their car seats we need to remember to shut the door and lock it while we buckle them in.
I'm pretty passionate about this because I was a counselor in private practice and I was also a middle school counselor. I've heard so many stories. Please, we need to always protect our children by being very aware.
Posted by: Carol Brooke | June 03, 2009 at 09:36 AM
I occasionally let my 6 y/o walk the 3 blocks to school. I do walk him across the busy street (at the end of the block), and I can (if I wanted) literally watch him for 2 1/2 of the 3 blocks (it's pretty much a straight shot from our home to his school).
By "occasionally" I mean this has happened about 6 times. I only watched him walk it twice. I stress the importance of going straight to school (ie. no talking to strangers, going in houses/cars, etc.). I also stress the importance of not taking the same route to school everyday, including not always leaving at the same time (ie. some days my son likes to go in early for school breakfast). Having walked him to school for pretty much the last 2 years (except those 6 times), I have met several of our neighbors--to that end, I have pointed out houses on each block that my son could seek help at if anything "weird" happens when he's walking to school.
A year ago, I would not have anticipated letting my 6 y/o walk to school alone, but he has shown me how responsible he can be, so we've been experimenting, like with our solo walks to school.
I find it interesting that so many parents put such faith in the registered sex offender sites. First of all, I would think there are plenty of offenders who haven't been caught yet. Secondly, I would imagine that many of the offenders don't actually live at the address the state has on file (ie. the offender lists his mom's address as his permanent address, but really spends most of his time crashing at his girlfriend's place across town).
Besides other issues I may have with this type of permanent, public record, I believe it leads parents into a false sense of security, where they are going to spend so much time avoiding "that house on the corner where the [whispered voice] sex offender lives" that they may miss danger signals from another source.
Posted by: egl | June 03, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Not to start a side-topic, but I am truly curious: What would be the perspective of the person who is bothered by the presence of a 5 YO boy in the women's room?
My son is 2, so I am not there yet. But I still would like to know, for when I do get there with him.
At this point, my son is a total speed demon, and sprints away from me at the slightest provocation. This will probably change as he matures, but I have a feeling I will always need to keep an eye on him. He is naturally explorative and curious by nature (which we encourage!), but is, of course, too young to understand many boundaries.
Posted by: SJ | June 03, 2009 at 10:57 AM
I'm sorry - this is probably totally a side topic - but I wouldn't be bothered by a five year old in the women's room. However, I am bothered by children of all ages who try to peek over or crawl under the stalls, or who talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk - not just about what they're doing, but what everybody's doing.
Posted by: anon | June 03, 2009 at 11:19 AM
Hello Mama-
I am a Certified Professional Nanny and a Parent Coach, and I am often asked what a good age to talk to children about stranger is, and I say from the time they can walk and talk. Parents are often afraid they will scare their children, but the truth is that children must be aware what a stranger is and who a stranger is, because more often than not, a child won’t know who a stranger is.
Here are my kid friendly stranger ideas:
1) Define a stranger, a stranger is someone you don’t know. I use to use the example, I their loving nanny was a stranger, because Mommy & Daddy didn’t introduce me to them yet. For parents use a close friend as a once stranger. This is important, because children are abused or abducted by a person they have some sort of acquaintance with, the deli counter employee, the neighbor up the street, people who are strangers to us, but a child wouldn’t think is one.
2) Play the What If game. As soon as your child is out of the stroller, play the What If game, if you got lost here, what would you do. Point out people for the child to go to, a person wearing an apron or a badge, a Mommy, teach your child your full name, their full name and to provide that information to the helpers. Practice, Practice, Practice this!! It works on all age groups.
3) When out, put a business card in your child’s back pocket. If they do get lost, your contact information is right there. I’ve seen in Parent’s Magazine, a company offers temporary tattoos which you can write your contact info on. GREAT!!
4) Teach you child to say “You’re not my Mommy, Your not my Daddy, I don’t know you” if they are taken. These words will attract the right kind of attention. When adults see another adult carrying a screaming child out the door, they figure the child is a brat. If an adult hears “You’re not my Mommy, Your not my Daddy, I don’t know you” action will be taken.
The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children www.missingkids.com has a lot of resources for parents about keeping your children safe. I strongly recommend parents spend a few minutes and read their information.
As for your question about leaving your 3 year old, I do feel it’s too young unless a trusted adult is watching. While your child may stay where you told them to, you cannot trust a predator not being around. Predators find legitimate reasons to be around children, and if they see your child alone, that may be the window they need to try to hurt your child.
This is actually a topic I’ve developed a seminar for, Beyond Stranger Danger, as soon as I have a location and time set, I’ll let Urban Mama’s know.
Best of Luck
Rebecca
Everything Baby, LLC
www.everythingbabyllc.com
Posted by: Rebecca Magby | June 03, 2009 at 08:24 PM
This is hard for me, because my daughter is 11 and learning to be independent, but at the same time, my desire to protect her is still so strong. I try to balance my fears with logic, and I talk to her all the time about how to handle different situations and people. When she is on her own, I need to know where she is and with whom, and she is expected to check in with me regularly. As she demonstrates responsibility, she gains freedom. But I always feel a bit nervous until I know she is safe with me.
At 3 1/2, I would not have let her out of my sight. I have always chosen to err on the side of caution when it comes to supervising my child - you can't get a do-over if something bad were to happen, so I'd rather be safe in the first place.
Posted by: Jacquelyn | June 03, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Three?!!
I'm glad someone mentioned the age minimum for leaving children in a public place. My understanding is it's illegal to leave your child, without supervision, under the age of 10. I work in a certain massive bookstore and there are notices posted all over the children's section stating that fact. Parents are often talked to about it by employees and management. I don't think the age minimum is common knowledge.
Libraries, toy stores, anywhere children congregate, are magnets for those who prey upon kids. I'd be curious what a library employee would say about this post.
Posted by: k | June 03, 2009 at 11:45 PM