Urban Mamas

I agree with the last comment regarding PPS making it difficult to start your child early. I had to search deeply for the information regarding early entrance. We are in the middle of testing our daughter now who turns 5 in Sept. And the process isn't complete until July 31. That doesn't give us much time to prepare our family and her for kindergarten, or confirm a school, or determine if she can handle a language immersion program as well as entering kindergarten early.

I also agree with the point about testing older kids because there are a number of parents who are holding their children back if they have summer b'days mainly for sports(called red shirting)like hockey which is very competitive in our state when they are clearly mentally ready, but they just think their kids will have a size advantage in hockey if held back. I think they should be evaluated just like early entrance candidates. Finally they have a program RSK for 5 yr old
children not ready for kindergarten. What about a special program for advanced children who are early 5's.

It seems that so many responses come with parents who were the youngest and so happy not to have been the oldest. Schools are so different today than they were when we were kids. The focus is differentiated education now - to reach each student at his or her level. I do not recall that being too much of a focus when I was young. The concern to me, is that later on my 13 year old freshman could be dating a junior who is 17! That thought is scary to me - also sending my 17 year old out there to college is equally as scary. Just a couple thoughts to ponder!

I just wanted to up date that they let my daughter enter school here with out a pscyh evaluation, they treated her like a transfer student, and her new teacher here in St. helens is very impressed with her academics, but my daughter thrives on learning new things

I am in the same boat right now, my daughter is currently in kindergarten in California (she is 5 sept. 26th) And she will be back oct 1st, so I went to the school to enroll her here in St.Helens and they told me that she is too young here, She is already ahead of the kinders here who haven't even started school yet. They told me that she had to do the pschy eval. I have contacted the superindent here and she is thinking about letting her start "early" with out the psch exam, One of my friends daughter did this last year she transfered from cali to Oregon and her daughter got in and she didn't turn 5 until october, any one else have an experiance like this, if so advice is helpful

I am also getting ready to have my daughter take the battery of testing HILLSBORO school district. The part that gets me is that the standards here are so high that even the asessing psychologist told me beforehand that it is almost impossible for a child under 6 to pass these tests. If even the oldest and more advanced children that are of kinder age cannot possibly pass them, where are these standards coming from? Is it all about the money? non-refundable $500 for tests that your child will most likely not pass...seems fishy to me.

Growing Seeds Child Development Center will have a Kindergarten again this year. Kids need to be 5 by January 1, 2010 to start Kindergarten in the fall of 2009.
www.growingseeds.net

AJ: Go to your district's website and search for "kindergarten early entry." All the districts seem to have their policies online.

This is such an interesting topic! My son is 2.5, with a sept 10th birthday! I so wanted him to come early so we wouldn't be dealing with kindergarden drama! I'm already stressing out about him getting into kindergarden Sept 2010 and not when he is 5 going on 6!

At 2.5 he counts to 30 on his own, is learning SIMPLE math, knows his shapes, colors, abcs, and the majority of his letters. In no way do I think my child is a genious (his two best friends that are the EXACT same age are all doing these same things) but he is too smart to have to wait a year to start real school!

As a kid I started kindergarden as a freshly 5 year old, but I could read, add, subtract, and some multiplication; all thanks to an older sister who practiced her school work by teaching me. In school I was bored out of my mind! It made paying attention so hard, I can't do that to my son! And I definitly don't plan on stopping to work with him and teach him stuff!

If anyone could post exactly what you do for early entry programs, that would be great. I want to be on top of that!!!!

It turns out that no PPS school, including the charter schools, is required to participate in the early entry program. Emerson says they will not, and they will make no exceptions. Portland Village School's official line is that they will not, but a discussion with the principal led me to believe that they would consider a child born in September upon evaluation of the child (I didn't get the sense that the PPS early entry challenge would even be required). Unfortunately, PVS has to charge a lot for full day kindergarten (up to $900/month to have a child there from 7:30 to 5:30!!), so it's not an option for us. I spoke with the PPS Administration department (as well as the TAG department and the Charter School department). They are amazingly disconnected from each other in terms of how the charter schools deal with admission. According to MLC and Portland Village School, they don't participate in PPS school choice. The PPS admin director didn't know that however. The Charter School person didn't know anything about Early Entry. The TAG person doesn't know anything about charter schools, etc.

This has been really frustrating and I hope we can push through some meaningful change to make the process less difficult for families in the future. For starts, all PPS schools including charters, should be required to adhere to the same standards for early admission. If our tax dollars are funding charter schools, they should be equally accessible. And early entry should be determined by a combination of parents, preschool teachers and an evaluation by kindergarten teachers (not psychologists with standardized intelligence tests). Ditto with holding kids back a year. Admittedly it would require more time up front to make the determination, but surely it will make everyone's classroom experience better in the long run. I bet in the long run it would save resources, but that's not how bureaucracy thinks.

I feel like my child is being held back a whole year (at least from our first choice schools) because he has the misfortune of being born two days too late. Our child is bright and mature but also gets bored easily. I know the favored position of the moment is to hold them back, especially boys, but each child is different and no bureaucracy should overrule the good judgement of parents and teachers.

RE: "no testing, please." It's interesting that parents of May kids--children whose birthdays fall four months before the school year's start--are allowed to decide which year their children should start school. But parents of kids whose birthdays fall a week before to a month after the first day of school aren't considered adequate enough to make that decision.

Personally, I prefer California's Dec. 2 cutoff. Some parents there hold their fall kids back voluntarily, but at least the children who are 5 the bulk of the school year get the chance to be 5-year-old kindergartners instead of 6-year-old kindergartners. Here's a link to all the states' cutoff dates:

http://users.stargate.net/~cokids/kindergarten_cut-off_dates.htm

I'm curious about the dropout rates for all those older kids stuck in high school until they're about to turn 19 in states like Indiana, where the cutoff date is July!! My husband teaches high school here. He sees the bored older 18-year-olds, and they're often his lowest-performing students.

notesting, please: Don't worry, the older kids will NEVER get tested--that was just my idea as a frustrated parent who is so tired of hearing that ALL boys aren't emotionally ready to start school at a younger age. My October-born son has such a long attention span and is so ready to learn. I feel like the educational system is failing him by making him grow another year older before letting him in the classroom. We're going with a private junior kindergarten program to allow him to learn how to read, write, do more advanced math, etc., but it irks me to no end that we have to do this.

I also speak as a September child myself. I'm so thankful I was never held back because I was young--and I was in honors and AP courses. Don't let educators tell you that your younger child will never be an advanced student (I've heard that argument). My young August daughter is one of the top students in her class, too.

As the parent of a May boy who is considering holding him a year I have to object to the idea of testing in order to do this. My decision is based solely on the emotional development of my son and the fact that he is simply not emotionally or socially ready to sit in a classroom all day, despite the fact that he may be intellectually ready and curious. Obviously things can change between now and September, but if they don't, I need options. As much as parents with September babies want other options for their children, I wish I had better options for mine. Frankly, getting rid of this full day kindergarten plan would solve many of my concerns, but I don't see that happening.

I disagree with pushing the cut off date to later in the fall because then you would be having the same discussion, only with parents whose kids turn 5 in Oct wondering if they can get them in early. BUT I do agree with the point about testing older kids because there are a number of parents who are holding their children back if they have summer b'days and that's not necessarily the best thing either. Can but, but should be evaluated just like those who want to enroll children who miss the cut off date. One thing I don't care for is how arbitrary the date is across states. It seems like those with late cut offs are starting to wise up but there are still states who have b'day cut off dates up to Dec. But I can imagine that it would be a hard decision for some parents whose children just missed the cut off. Thankfully mine has a Dec b'day so that wasn't even an issue.

Here's one of the articles I was referring to in the above post:

"At What Age Should Children Enter Kindergarten? A Question for Policy Makers and Parents"
by Deborah Stipek
http://www.srcd.org/documents/publications/SPR/spr16-2.pdf

Kids should indeed be kids, MK. But their brains are so ready to learn at this age--why deprive them of the opportunity to be educated? Research shows that education for young kindergartners is far more beneficial than holding them back. I'm sure your preschool program is excellent for preschool-aged children, but those kids who turn 5 early in the school year would get so much out of the cognitive experiences found in kindergarten.

Here's my suggestions for Oregon:
Let's get longer half-day kindergarten going. My daughter had 3 1/2 hours vs this ridiculous 2 hr 40 minute schedule, and it made for a far less stressful environment. They had recess and music, in addition to a challenging education program, and it worked great.

Push the cutoff date to later in the fall. That way kids who are turning the proper age so soon after the cutoff don't have to wait an entire year just to be a 6 year old with 5 year olds.

And if people are so intent on holding kids back--which forces teachers to advance the curriculum for the 6 year olds--how about testing these older kids to see if they indeed should be held back? The young kids are so scrutinized and criticized and tested. Why don't we ever question why these taller, older, voluntarily held-back summer kids are sitting there with the younger kids?

All the insights posted thus far indicate a trove of consideration, and as a play-based preschool teacher and mom of two bright daughters, I encourage everyone to EMBRACE the opportunity to explore the world with your children on your own terms without rushing into "the system." It will always be there waiting for you, and current kindergarten goals are the first grade goals of a generation ago. Our young children deserve the opportunity to be kids, to play and explore freely without the pressures of worksheets and short blocks of time jumping from one subject to another. Of course many children CAN succeed in kindergarten "early," but this does not mean it is most appropriate to their development as a whole person. If you are insistent on this process, consider if you are really seeking a more fitting peer group for your child. Perhaps this can be found in other places.

I think the bottom line is that the parents and the teachers should have the flexibility to decide what is in the best interest of a particular child. If a child is truly kindergarten-ready, then s/he will not impact the rest of the class or require an unfair portion of the teacher's attention. And we are talking about children whose birthdays fall within 30 days of the cutoff. If all of that child's peers from preschool are going on to kindergarten, this isn't a question of "early entry." This is about holding a child back for a whole year because he was born a few days too late. I can understand PPS having guidelines, but allowing such hard and fast rules to outweigh the very real needs of very real children seems nothing short of coldly bureaucratic to me. I can see how this makes the whole thing easier for them to administrate and I'm guessing that's the bottom line.

P.S. Before anyone asks, I forgot to add that I know schools have changed since I was a young kindergartner. My daughter has a late-August birthday, started school as an early 5, is at the top of her class, and absolutely loves school. She got bored in second grade, a review year, even as the youngest in her classroom. Challenge is a stimulating and a necessary part of life. Breezing through school as the oldest in one's class won't necessarily teach a child about the world.

We're about to go through the assessment process in the Hillsboro District. Our principal warned us he's never seen a child pass the tests, but we'd like to try anyway.

Regarding the above argument, "you'll never regret waiting a year, but later in high school you may regret pushing her forward," my husband teaches high school and deals with many a bored, underachieving older child who is 18 the entire year. If you investigate the research, boredom and a feeling of being too large or too old for a grade is an actual risk, not something to be shrugged off. I was a September child who started kindergarten right after turning 5 (as was my sister), and I was a high achiever even while on the younger end of the class. I'm so thankful I wasn't held back because I was small and young. I feel that if your child is academically advanced, let their minds flourish and grow in a classroom.

I'll report back after we've gone through the assessment process. We have an academic Pre-K option as our backup for next year.

I just have to provide my 2 cents to this. I actually put my daughter through the evaluation process 2 years ago and had a very positive experience. We got the go ahead to send her to Kindergarten early (i.e. before she turned 5, yet her bday is sept 13th.)

Anyway after further discussions with almost every teacher I could find, we decided to wait. The argument that won me over was, "you'll never regret waiting a year, but later in high school you may regret pushing her forward." My daughter is now in 1st grade and it has been a most positive experience. She loves school, is confident and excited about everything. I think that is one of the most important aspects of early grades

In my opinion the argument about being bored is a weak one. There will always be varying levels in the classroom & teachers do there best to make sure kids are being challenged. Wouldn't you rather have your child in the top group & confident than perhaps struggling in a lower group because she is so much younger than the others?

In the end it is a very personal choice. They have to draw the line on the calendar somewhere & there will always be a range of bdays in the room.

All so true. People say, it's just kinder, what's the big deal. I get that. Kinder isn't a big deal to me. Personally, I'm looking at this for her educational lifetime rather than just kindergarten. I'd hold her out out school for another year or two if I could even though she's reading and loves school. That wouldn't help my main concern that she'll be bored throughout school (like I was) waiting for the kids to learn their ABCs or multiplication tables or high school government because then she'd be by far the oldest. She basically taught herself to read. We've only helped when asked, we haven't given her any lessons. I can't help but think that she might thrive in school and love learning. That said, I don't think she needs an academic kinder. I'd much rather continue on our current path of child-directed play learning at home supplementing a preschool that also doesn't push academics. HOWEVER, if I start her in kinder in 2010 at age 6, how bored will she be? How bored will she be in 4th grade when the youngest boy in the class is still learning how to read beginning reader books?

The thing is, she isn't really a 4 year old in September. The day after school starts she's a 5 year old. I carried her to term and let myself go into labor naturally after my due date. If I hadn't, she'd totally meet the age cutoff. I actually considered this exact issue at the time, if you can believe that. Boy was I tempted to induce so I wouldn't be sitting here 4 years later stressing about this. How screwy is that???

Another thing that I hope my children will do (especially the September baby that will hopefully graduate high school at 17) is take a year off after high school (Euro style) and travel, find herself, maybe make some money, learn WHY she wants to go to college, WHY it's worth it to make it in the world. I do think it'll be hard to start college at just-turning-18 like I did!

We all just want the best for our kids and I can see all sides of the situation. I truly feel for the teachers. I just don't know the answer though. I do know that every teacher I've ever asked said that it's better to be older ... that has to be considered!

What a great point you raise. My issue always comes back to whether or not the academic push in Kindergarten is appropriate to begin with. If Kinder could be more age appropriate, then the kids who really aren't ready for that social experience can wait (or be red-shirted) and those who are ready for a more academic experience can perhaps get extra material or skip Kinder altogether. I'm not suggesting this is the answer, but generally speaking I think the academic focus in a full-day program is probably not the best for most kids. Again, generally speaking.

I agree that all children learn and socialize differently, but there are reasons that they make the process too painful to bother with unless you're absolutely sure that it's the best thing. The other side of the issue is that if children are doing early entry on one end and red-shirting on the other, teachers are then left with the challenge of teaching to a huge age range. It's challenging enough to manage the wide variety of needs, maturity levels and academic needs in a classroom that are all within twelve months of age. Add to that the issue of Kindergarden becoming increasingly structured and academic. To me, the real question is, if September rolls around and there are four year-olds and six year-olds walking into their first day of school, each with their own intrinsic set of needs that come with being older or younger than average, how does that affect the five year-olds?

Thanks for the laughs gottaask! If only it was that easy, but the district makes you prove your child's age with a birth certificate and even your address with a bill or something. So I don't think parents are going to win. Even though this process sounds like a lot, after it was all done and said, it was worth it for our family.

If you think this is worth it for your child, please go ahead with the early entry process. I also didn't think my daughter would be challenged enough to go through preschool again. I knew she was smart enough to learn quickly and integrate socially with her peers even if she will be one of the youngest ones there. Who cares really? It should be based on a per child basis anyway since all kids learn and socialize differently.

Ugh! This makes the challenge sound horrible. Has anyone thought about lying about their child's age? Do they actually make you prove your child's birthday?

Thank you so much for the info, sbmomma. I truly appreciate it. I haven't yet met someone whose child did well enough on the psych assessment to get in. I didn't realize that the appeal process would even be a possibility. Yes, I'm already harboring resentment about this process. PPS thinks of early entry as a full year "early" but I'm thinking of it as one day early. It's not that I want my child to be the youngest. I just don't think it will be a good fit for her to be the oldest. Thanks again.

My husband and I struggled with this decision for our daughter since she turned 5 in September '08. We discussed over time and watched how our daughter socialized and learned before making our final decision. She is such a quick learner and integrates really well with any age group that we felt it was worth it to go through the whole process. Although I might add that PPS did not make it easy for us and I still have bad feelings towards them for putting us through it!!
First we had to fill out lots of paperwork and meet with the current principal of the school in which our daughter would be attending. Then we had to pay over $350 for the psych evaluation!!! I don't even want to go on about that. Our daughter handled it very well but I got the impression that the person we went through did not believe in early entry. I actually did not like her very much and the testing was only for about 50 miuntes.
In the end, we got denied because of the psych evaluation even though she tested very well. So we went through the appeal process and finally got our daughter tested by a real Kindergarten teacher and got better feedback from her about our daughter's abilities. In the end, our daughter made it through and is doing great in Kindergarten. She is actually ahead of most of her classmates who were 5 before the Sept. 1st deadline!
I say go with your gut instinct since we know our children best and whether or not its in the best interest of our child. Just don't expect PPS to support you in this decision. I have two other friends who went through this process and dealt with the same problems that I went through. They also went through the appeal process and got their children in early entry as well. Good luck!

PPS posted their new guidelines last Friday. Basically they will only test those kids that will turn 5 in September and they added an interview with the school principal. I keep hearing that PPS wants to make it really difficult to start your child "early" and that it's the rare exception now.